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In my experience this is much more of a cultural thing than anything else. I would never change in front of strangers or even most of my friends , ever , but I have friends and distant family members who have no issue at all with it.

In high school, even some of the most conservative and homophobic girls in my gym class had no issues changing out in the open in the locker room because "we're all girls here".

If literally everyone except you changes in private you could consider joining them, but otherwise I'd just do whatever you're comfortable with.

Since you said only some of the girls change in the shower, I'm guessing at least a few other girls change in the public area, and in that case you should be fine.

IMO anyone who is uncomfortable sharing a locker room with a lesbian in general is going to be unhappy no matter what you do, so it isn't worth worrying about.

It sounds like you're trying really hard to be courteous and considerate, which is the best way to go about it : best of luck with your class!

I used to be super shy, but now I'm pretty shameless. I actually wait about 30 minutes after everyone gets in the locker room, so that I wont have to worry about the cluster of girls and just go about my business.

Thanks for being reassuring! Pretty shameless now? I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with a lesbian in the locker room at all, but I'm also someone that wouldn't get changed in front of others ever, either.

The only way, in my opinion, that you'd come off as an obnoxious lesbian is if you get a flirty, or stare, or make inappropriate comments.

Other than that, no big deal. I always feel very jealous of the girls that feel so comfortable in their own skin to get naked in the changing rooms.

I don't as I feel like all the other girls have hard bodies, and I have a jiggly one, I feel judged. But that is my problem. I think actually people are much more concerned about what they are doing and how they appear than about what anyone else is doing!

Your jiggly body is okay! Because it's your body. You are right that people are more concerned about their own body and what they are doing, so if you want to, feel free to get naked next time.

It can be scary the first few times, but after that it is such a relief to just not worry about because you realize no one else actually cares.

Do you! Sounds like you have great locker room etiquette. I wish I could be as comfortable naked in locker rooms!

I'm bi. I just generally keep my eyes down so I'm not checking anyone out, and I expect the same from others. Other than that I agree with the others to just generally follow the lead of the majority at your particular gym.

This is very much a cultural thing, and I would just do what others are doing, like others have said. If everyone changes in private, then I'd probably do so too, but if it's just some people, I'd do what I'm comfortable with.

At the local pool I go to, there are some cubicles inside the wardrobe available, so some people use those while others, like myself, just change and dry themselves off in the common area, both are perfectly normal and fine.

At my gym, it's pretty much the same thing. Less nudity because the showering isn't an integral part of it, but plenty of people get undressed by the locker, put on a towel and walk to the showers, and the same when they're done.

Regarding general behaviour, I've always stuck to somewhere between "what the majority does" and "what I feel most comfortable with. So it's not even necessarily always the same in one culture.

It didn't bother me. Maybe they had wild masturbation sessions remembering me naked at home, maybe they didn't. In school there was always a line of girls waiting to use the bathroom stalls to change.

In college it's more of the same or changing in the shower. After years of the military and little to no privacy I don't care either way.

We're all the same. Anyone would be uncomfortable if you stare long enough lesbian or not. No worries on whatever you do. If you're comfortable with your body get undressed :.

I didn't go to high school so I wouldn't really know the "norm" there but at my gym there are some women that change in a cubicle and there are women like me that change in the open.

I don't really care if you're gay or bi I'm bi and I never pay attention to the other girls changing. It takes me 1 minute and it's not something I worry about.

If somebody is uncomfortable changing around you or just other people in general I wouldn't see that as your issue; there are usually washroom cubicles or something they can do their business in.

Since the problem doesn't seem to be your comfort with your nudity, I agree with the person who said to see what others do. However you get changed, it does seem weird to me when people don't at least put on a towel to walk from locker to shower.

If people are generally a bit more prudish, I'd just strip down to bra and undies, put the towel on, then take them off from underneath the towel if that's not too hard.

But as long as you're not staring or doing anything too crazy, I doubt anyone will give you a second thought :. I'm pan, and I think, pretty obviously not straight short hair, hairier legs than most dudes , and I just get butt ass naked.

I'm there to shower and change and that's what I'm doing. I'm not checking anyone else out, and I just assume other people aren't checking me out.

If someone has issues with nudity in a locker room, that's their problem, not mine. If someone doesn't feel comfortable changing in public, that's up to them.

Hell, I'm sure most people wish they had enough confidence to change in public. So do what's comfortable to you, what's it to them?

As a girl who did a lot of team sports growing up, it becomes obvious who never had that experience -- and I'm guessing that might be some small part of what you're experiencing.

Some people are just outside of a locker culture, where the point is to get naked, get clean, and get out.

They add the extra steps because the whole experience is daunting, so any thing you want to do that doesn't impede your comfort would probably go a long way for them but at the same time, as long as you're respecting their space, then I can't imagine any of them having any issues.

Tbh, if any of them are concerned about your sexuality, let them come to terms with the fact that as grown-ups you can occupy the same space without it becoming unsafe or sexualized.

You should never have to move to some other place just because you happen to fancy the lady parts if you can separate what is and isn't appropriate behavior in somewhere like a changing room.

I did some modeling for art classes while going through art school, so I'm quite comfortable being naked in front of others. I'm quite used to others being comfortable with nudity as well.

So when I worked at a Christian summer camp, it took me awhile to catch on that that wasn't so acceptable there. I'd change in the middle of the cabin and after a week I noticed I was the only one doing it.

Apparently this was really awkward for others, but I didn't know until I found someone I trusted and asked her.

In my experience modeling, the only time I was uncomfortable being naked around anyone was when I overheard a conversation between two guys where they were making comments about another model's body, like in a sexual way.

IMO people who hide to change are ashamed or embarrassed themselves. Anytime I see people changing openly, the only think I think is how I wish I had the balls to walk around like that.

I would never judge someone for taking their clothes of Ina change room.. I don't think its cultural. I think it's personal preference. Growing up some girls would wait to be able to change in private, some girls would cover themselves or seek less populated areas to change, and others would stop butt naked in the middle of the locker room to finish a story with their friend.

Different people have different levels of comfort with semi public nudity. As long as you're not oggling the women or chatting them up while they change, you being a less doesnt make the slightest difference.

Those who are uncomfortable being seen by someone attracted to their gender will change in private and those who don't care will continue to change out in the open.

Where you yourself change will not alter where others change. I'm a bit of a looky Lou. Even though I'm a straight, I have a hard time not looking at others bodies.

So I would just take a corner and face the wall. I'd stand there naked if I wanted to because I don't care if other people look at me.

Whether you care if someone looks at you is the only reason you should change where you change. Do you mind that someone can see you naked?

If not, there's no reason to be more discreet. If they choose to be more discreet because they're uncomfortable is their own choice. I mean, what is the issue here, exactly?

We haven't been told that there was any specific reason for this beyond her sexual orientation. Was she ogling? Making sexual comments to the other girls?

Why shouldn't she be open about her sexuality? Heterosexual girls most certainly are the age of consent has little or nothing to do with when people establish their sexuality, it's not magic, people develop at different ages, but I'd say that most people are at least remotely aware of what turns them on well before And why on earth was she sent to the principal's office over this, since when is your sexual orientation something you need to be punished for?

I think it's less about not being allowed in the locker room than it is about being banned from PE class and being made to sit in the principal's office.

From a later story on cnn on the same subject: "'Every day that Ashly sat in the office, other students would see her there and ask her why she was there,' the suit says.

I'm very nearly speechless. Where, exactly, did the article say she announced her sexual orientation to the school?

Perhaps she did, or maybe she discussed it with a single big-mouthed friend. Maybe someone asked her about a rainbow sticker on her notebook and she didn't feel like lying.

Who knows. It may well be, imaswinger. The article said her town has 25, people--about the same as mine.

And while the atmosphere in California may well be different from that of Virginia, I can tell you that the only support for queer students at my person high school came from the openly lesbian Latin teacher.

Over my four years, there were no openly queer girls, no openly gay boys, and no public queer relationships. The three admittedly bi guys got away with it by having attractive girlfriends and avoiding contact with each other.

One person was truly open about his bisexuality--and he quit school three months before graduation because he got tired of football players spitting on him in the halls.

Harassment of students simply suspected of being queer was just as bad. I'm sorry to provide only anecdotal evidence, but it's important to remember that high school is not easy for queer kids, and administrative policies that treat them as dangerous are not going to help.

Is she some kind of sex maniac who's likely to jump the nearest girl at the first sight of naked flesh [? But the majority of boys wouldn't jump some girl in a unisex changing room either.

Boys and girls have separate changing rooms because it's likely that they'd feel embarassed to change around one another.

Many boys feel embarassed to change around each other , so changing around girls would be even worse. Similarly, some girls might not like changing around someone who could be sexually attracted to them.

As a heterosexual man I can admit that if I were allowed in the women's changing room, I'd probably have a good peek even if I weren't particularly attracted to anyone there.

I doubt lesbians are overwhelmingly prudish in this regard. This girl has rights, but so do those who have to change with her. Clearly one of them didn't like it, so they shopped her.

That's the argument we hear all the time. But it DOES happen You can't claim a certain sexual biology and then turn around and suggest that it can be turned on and off under varying circumstances.

Surely it works the same way for lesbian women. Simple fact is, I would prefer to have a woman taking a peek at me than I would a gay man.

But I'm sure that makes me some kind of homophobe or something. Alas, I have to change with other men Obligatory Onion links.

Public schools have an obligation to look after the safety and security of their students and this administrative action definitely undermines that lesbian student's security.

A lesbian in a women's locker room is completely uncomparable to a man in a women's locker room or vice versa , because a lesbian girl would have had previous experience showering or changing with girls.

Thus, she is not going to get out of joint when seeing a naked girl, because she already knows what a nude female body looks like.

All she has to do is look in a mirror. The same thing applies for a gay man in a men's locker room. The discomfort that some adolescent girls might feel that a lesbian might desire them is nothing compared to the harassment that the lesbian student is going to face while the school board tattoos her with a "scarlet L.

Guys will "moon" each other, flash each other etc. I have no experience in girls' locker rooms, but think about the opening scene of Carrie and you can also see some homoerotic elements, even though the girls are putatively straight.

Did we learn nothing from the Columbine massacre? Harris and Klebold were taunted incessantly as "faggots" and they weren't even gay.

In Banning, California, it looks like the school doesn't merely turn a blind eye to this kind of ostracism of nonconformists, but gives it an administrative seal of approval posted by jonp72 at AM on December 18, Funny, I was thinking about this the other day in relation to the women-only section we have at the gym.

I don't particularly feel the need to use it and wondered why others do. Why don't men have one? I think there's two issues: 1. Men and women are brought up to feel uncomfortable in each other's company and with each other's bodies.

If the genders were mixed at all times from birth, I doubt if the sexual tension thing would be a problem. One man in a women's changing room would be a laugh.

A whole group of them would be embarrassing. Groups are different from individuals. How is one lesbian threatening? It's more likely that the situation is threatening for her.

If there was a group of lesbians that were acting aggressively that would be different. But that's very, very unlikely to happen at a school.

They'd be slaughtered. Probably because the women who run the gym like checking out the men's abs :- Really though, it's segregation, and I bet if a 'Whites Only' area was created, there'd be an uproar.

Because women have been 'oppressed' for hundreds of years, many women feel it is okay to 'get men back'. Luckily I feel the same way as Germaine Greer.

She claims feminism has gone too far, and that woman are not only trying to be equal, they're trying to get things better than men too.

This is the best point made for the defence in this thread so far, and one that has forced me to reflect on my opinion.

If a single guy was put into a woman's changing room, he would probably be the embarassed one, since he would be outnumbered. And I'm almost certain that it was a vendetta.

I resisted I have to say that I believe that there should be no segregation at all between sexes in changing rooms. I also believe that there should be no rules about public nudity as long as a man can avoid being erect and a woman can avoid being openly arroused.

I look at pictures of naked women most of the day and it doesn't do anything because they are just women who happen to have no clothes on rather than being objects for sex.

We seem to have lost this distinction. In the twine42 utopia there's no dress code, no stress about sex and sexuality, and therefore less worry about LGB issues and many fewer sexual attacks.

Yes, I'll go back to my dreamworld. A note on the "women only" area of a gym: my college had women's only P. Due to modesty requirements of their religion, wearing shorts around men would be unseemly; wearing their normal long dresses or pants got in the way of running 3 miles.

This was only for a couple of required P. In middle school and high school, quite a few girls were embarrassed to change around other girls, not because they thought people were ogling them, but because they thought their bodies were deficient in some way.

Those who were embarrassed went into the toilet stalls to change. And then there were the girls who were expert at getting changed without exposing any extra flesh it doesn't take much practice to learn how to change shirts without flashing anybody.

I don't see why these girls can't do the same thing if they're feeling uncormfortable. Or, better yet, attend a class on respect, tolerance, and human sexuality?

Obviously these teenagers are not getting taught that at home. Doesn't sound like the Germaine Greer I know. According to the LA Times article I read this morning it's in the "California" section , the girl was asked about her sexuality by the girl next to her in the locker room, then pulled aside by the gym teacher and told not to talk about it.

The next day, the teacher sent her to the principal's office, with no explanation. It would appear from the article that the harassment was prompted by the actions of the teachers and administrators themselves.

Seems the principal's principle principle of locker room gender separation is to deny ogling. That is, you change your clothes with the people you not they are least sexually attracted to.

Which seems to me to be fairly perverse, certainly more perverse than the ordinary human activity of 'checking out' other human beings.

Perhaps a solution would be some 30 individual changing stalls, each containing one shower head, one toilet, one rack of hooks for clothes-hanging, and one bench.

However, this brings up the question of voluntarily sharing shower-space. Again an entirely healthy activity, but the prevailing cultural meme is against it.

So, the principal's secondary principle is that the students should change in company, to monitor each other's compliance with the proscription of sex.

These principles, together, don't handle the problem of a lesbian student very well at all. One might almost suspect they weren't thought up with lesbian students in mind.

Indeed one might suspect that neither principle makes a lot of sense, and more sensible principals might decide on more sensible principles and hence a new course of action.

Personally, I recommend a unisex changing room. A group of young men doesn't pose a threat to a group of young women unless they're thoroughly de-socialized, and in any case the teachers are easily close enough to be summoned by screams.

Who's soft? The 15 year old girl who was called out of gym class on a technicality, or the perceived homophobia of the rest of the female student population?

So, uh, what happens with bisexuals, then? Where do they get to change? I wonder if the parents in these communities are prepared for the tax hike they will surely experience in order to facilitate the staggering amounts of money needed for all these different changing rooms.

Re: women's only gyms. They tend to be different from unisex gyms, focusing on equipment more commonly used by women and classes over things like weights.

I don't have to wait in line for one of the two stationary bikes, there are a dozen of them, small differences like that. Personally, I hate unisex gyms.

It seems like a small percentage of the guys assume that anyone there is there to meet people and flirt, not to workout. That tiny percentage is more than enough to ruin an entire gym for me.

When I go I'm there to work out and leave. I don't want anyone flirting with me, I don't want anyone explaining to the "little lady" how a complex piece of equipment like, say, a stairmachine, works.

If I take a step class I don't want a group of men to be lined up in the back of the room watching everyone's ass. I go to an all-women's gym and these problems are instantly gone.

It's a huge gym so there's no problem getting a bike or a running machine. Classes are also in separate studios so there's no ogling - not that there would be anyway, this being England.

So I don't really understand the women-only area. I suppose if you're very, very body conscious it makes sense. If there were any such thing as a bisexual, then you might have a point wells.

Bisexuality is a behavior, not a sexuality. It is a trendy sexual game played by people who haven't a clue. In that case, you might be more in tune with 'burn your bra' Greer of the 60's.

I think Greer has certainly come into her element lately, with her theories on reverse sexism and how feminism is going too far. She has certainly become a pillar of sense and I'm one of her biggest fans for it too.

Wackybrit, let me know when women make the same pay as men do for the same work, and then we can talk about feminism going too far.

I guess they need some educatin' from you then: Everyone Hate to break it to you, but that scene from Carrie was a male director's fantasy. Females of any age do not strut around naked in change rooms and run their hands caressingly over themselves in open showers.

They hide in corners and change as quickly and modestly as possible. I can think of no practical solution for this situation that will satisfy everyone.

Unless we're prepared to put separate changing stalls in schools and this would take a generation to fully implement , the best we can do is keep the changerooms divided by gender as formerly and expect everyone to behave considerately regardless of their sexual orientation.

After all, this is really what we've been doing all along and it's worked pretty well. For God's sake, aeschenkarnos, when in high school I was subjected to enough boorish behaviour by as yet insufficiently socialized teenaged boys while fully clothed.

I can't imagine how humiliated I would have gotten if I'd been forced to change in front of them too. You can't seriously think this is a good idea.

Why bother? Witty's the one who's confused. Men like to stare at women's asses, if they're nice and tight. What do you think you have cleavage for?

It's to make them titties look more like a nice ass! All so we men will stare at them! You should be proud On a less aggressive note, I don't understand why women get so pissed off at men doing instinctual things.

When someone is checking me out, I strut, dammit! I don't understand why women get so pissed off at men doing instinctual things I'll field this one ladies Because "instinctual" things like ogling can often be followed by other possibly instinctual things like catcalling, unwnated attention, getting followed to your car, and being called a bitch because you don't want to give some slack-jawed hardon with legs your phone number.

I'm not saying I can't take a compliment, even from someone I might not want to date, but it's a tough line to draw.

Just because it's instinct doesn't make it right. Learning to control your instincts is an important part of living in a society, and so is acknowledging that your idea of a good time isn't everyone else's.

If it happened constantly, and usually when you didn't feel like it, it would get real tired, real quick. I'm disappointed in almost all of the opinions here.

This is the best point made for the defense in this thread so far, and one that has forced me to reflect on my opinion.

If a single guy was put into a woman's changing room, he would probably be the embarrassed one, since he would be outnumbered. Well, I'm glad after telling you verbatim to think of it from someone else's perspective you are capable of doing so, I suppose.

How much trauma is done to the heterosexual changing with 35 other heterosexuals in the locker room with one gay guy?

Not much. Will he look at you? Possibly, but you know what, deal with it. It doesn't even compare to the amount of harm caused by segregating this single homosexual, and differentiating him for more abuse than he is already taking.

This will only make it worse. To think that a gay person going into a men's locker room is even remotely like a straight guy looking at female porn is asinine.

Maybe with Summer's remarks you actually thought about it. Think: Looking at porn that will beat you up if it suspects you're looking at it. To segregate this poor girl causes her an incredible amount of pain and humiliation, to keep her in the same locker room causes maybe a few girls some comfort.

It's hard for me to believe this is even being debated. As I stare at a reminder of a hateful, ignorant comment in the Trackback post Wackybrit, your theories about why we have separate changing rooms are only that: theories.

This might be obvious, but in this sort of quasi-legal context if there really was a specified reasoning behind the system then that would be used in determining how to generalize the old rules to "new" situations.

I was really saddened to see that this happened in my home state. This is just bullshit. Shepd, I think you're on crack.

You wrote "What a waste just to protect one young girl from dealing with what her future life will be like.

In the rest of the fucking world men and women use changing rooms and bathrooms without any regard whatsoever to sexual orientation.

Have you ever been to an airport? Did you see the "lesbian" bathrooms? OK, bathrooms are kind of different, but maybe some airports have gyms.

If your point made any sense then it would have to be that the other girls should get used to the real world where they have to deal with different kinds of people.

I'd vote for any law or amendment that would protect the equal rights of gays, and anyone that won't can and will go to hell.

Of course, we can't even get an ERA, so this will take a long time. I posted this last night and came back this afternoon to see all these mostly shocking, disturbing comments.

What's wrong with you people!? To me and my lesbian roommate who e-mailed it to me this case represents an egregious violation of civil rights.

She, like all other minorities, should be entitled to the same civil liberties that you and I enjoy And I'm gay, and I pee at urinals next to real live straight men all the time andwouldja believe it?

Sorry for the graphic nature of that, but I'm trying to point out how absurd it is to assume that gaysany more than straight peoplecan't control their hormones in non-sexual contexts.

Should there be no more gay doctors, because they get titillated giving hernia tests? No more gay lifeguards, ambulance drivers, film directors, actors ya right!

And should we exclude blacks from all department stores because they--if we subscribe to the awful stereotype--tend to shoplift more? Or Jews from banks because they love money?

And unless you subscribe to the awful, inaccurate stereotype that gays are uncontrollably sex-minded, then you CANNOT exclude and ostricize and humiliate a young girl from a locker room for being a lesbian.

What the hell more do you want from us straights? Come to think of it, I've yet to have a queer hit on me. I think I'm a handsome, slender, and oh-so-sexy hunk o' meat.

The ladies seem to agree: I've had several of them after my ass. What the hell's wrong with you gays? I know I look at every woman like a potential screw: what'sa matter that you're not looking at me the same way?!

My confidence in being one sexy mofo is being eroded. I'm deeply hurt! Orange Swan: For God's sake, aeschenkarnos, when in high school I was subjected to enough boorish behaviour by as yet insufficiently socialized teenaged boys while fully clothed.

Well, I'm not prepared to push it to the point of being nutty about it, but I do sort-of think it's an idea with some good consequences, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, the 'civilizing influence' of mixed-gender groups. Boys are nicer when girls are around.

Sure, it's basically to impress the girls, but it's still true. Boys alone can treat each other fairly badly. Secondly, even if it is more stressful, I'm inclined to think the kids of both genders would be more likely to quietly and quickly get changed, facing the wall.

My point isn't really that mixed-gender changing rooms are a brilliant idea. I'm saying that single-gender changing rooms aren't a brilliant idea either, and mixed-gender changing rooms might actually be better.

If British-descended cultures weren't afraid of nudity and sexualize it so much of course other cultures, like those of the Middle East, are far worse in this regard, but let's confine our ambit of discussion for now , this wouldn't be an issue, and on that point, I'm curious about how Japanese, Danish and French high schools handle the issue of changing rooms.

Anyone know? Witty: Rubbish, it's the non -bisexuals who haven't a clue. A person may act in a way that conforms to their chosen sexual identity, but unless they are very unusual, they will in the course of their life be attracted to many people.

Some of those people, usually a small proportion, will be of the same sex as the person, and for cultural reasons they will usually not act on these attractions.

Our culture is, at the moment, making this an easier choice, and the ill-informed opinion of people like yourself is to blame.

Now some positive assertions: I believe people have the right to have sex with whoever also wants to have sex with them, and it's nobody else's business.

I also believe we have the right to put constraints, like an exclusive relationship including a marriage around our own sexual behavior.

The issue of pregnancy raises responsibilities when exercising one's sexual rights. So do STDs. So do the emotional needs and attachments of yourself and your partner s.

Balancing rights and responsibilities, what you want to do and what the consequences are, is part of maturity.

And this is why I have an ambivalent view of the 'gay community' and 'gayness' and 'lesbian-ness'. I don't dispute a person's right to define themselves however they want, within reason.

I don't dispute the political need to have a group with an interest in defending same-gender sex rights. What I do dispute is the "but you're gay, you can't have sex with a girl!

The expectation that a gay man or lesbian will be exclusively attracted to their own sex, to the point that an opposite-sex attraction will cause them qualms of 'heterophobic' identity crisis.

The presumption--for political reasons--that any man who ever has sex with another man is really gay, and his attractions to women are just fooling himself, irks me even more.

Both of these result from a vacuum of politics, for purposes of drumming up supporters. I reject the "are you gay or straight, please tick ONE" view of sexuality, because it is contrary to general fact, and psychologically unhealthy for individuals.

I doubt it. This is the easy logical argument against "bums to the wall" homophobia. Even of those women you do find attractive, you normally hit on them only if you're reasonably confident of a positive response.

Granted, this confidence can arise internally from Being A Complete Jerk rather than any good source. Why assume homosexual men behave more boorishly?

Not that I accuse you of making that assumption, 5FF, I'm only presenting the argument against it. Well expressed, aeschenkarnos.

Thank you. I'd be interested to hear how people propose dealing with transgendered students. A unisex changing room would make it a non-issue, but that's not the current reality of most schools and public places.

Should these kids be required to share a locker room with those of their biological sex or with those of the sex they live as? Or should they get to pick?

I don't think any of these are very good solutions though picking seems the least-bad. Anybody have any better ideas?

A lot of you aren't understanding what I'm saying. This is a free country. Just as you are free to express yourself on your sexuality, others are free to comment on that.

The fact you hate their freedom to do this is irrelevant. It can and will happen. The only time anyone has any business if ever telling you that you should not be commenting on someone is if it is something that is obvious.

This isn't something that others know immediately about you when they see you. If you decide to flaunt it, you must deal with the consequences of doing so.

For example, being an intelligent atheist, I do not go about and ensure everyone knows I am atheist. I don't want to deal with the changed attitudes towards me from others.

I have better things to do. If others inadvertently find out, etiquette dictates for them to ignore it.

Being that this girl has decided to let the world know about her sexuality makes it an issue others have the freedom to comment on.

If she didn't like that, it was her business to have not talked about it in the first place. Instead she wants the world to know about it, so she will have to deal with the way the world perceives at her.

How about this example: If you were to walk into a washroom and take a piss in the stall beside me and throughout your break you tell me of your gaity, I promise you, you WILL get a different attitude from me than anyone else pissing beside me.

And that's life. If you used the can and upon exiting told me you screw 10 ladies every night I will give you a dirty look and probably won't even use your stall.

That's life, and if you can't deal with it, you are not free to force me to be quiet about it. So you had better change your attitude instead if you don't like mine.

And, again, that's why I don't tell everyone on earth private things like that. Because I want people to treat me like a normal everyday person, not like some sort of God-hating maniac.

It's all about perception. If this girl had kept her mouth shut why the hell does she need to tell people that she's gay at 14?

Because she used her freedom to choose to tell others about her sexuality, others have now used their freedom to judge her yes, you have the freedom to judge others -- you just don't have the freedom to do much about your judgement.

The other girls have told the principal they aren't comfortable with her being there. He is simply reacting to that. If he doesn't, then I assume the other girls will use their freedom to shun the gay girl.

Wether that is right or not is irrelevant. They just will. In the end, this girl is learning an important life lesson, which is that you cannot change the attitudes of others towards you without encountering many hardships along the way.

That what people perceive is what you tell them. And she'll soon learn another lesson: She might legislate herself the freedom to change in that room, but she can't force the movement of others into that room with her.

She is effectively choosing to isolate herself from society, and this is infact the issue we are dealing with. On the contrary, I think most of us understood it quite well.

But thank you for furthering clarifying your point, in case someone missed the fact that you are advocating lying about a central part of one's life simply to avoid the ire of ignorant bigots.

You, sir, are an ass. Excuse me, that last was completely unnecessary. I'm just getting a wee bit frustrated with your self-centered and amoral approach to the issue.

According to aeschenkarnos , we should all be screwing each other regardless of gender or sexuality. Apparently, there is just one overall sexuality er sumthin'.

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It takes me 1 minute and it's not something I worry about. If somebody is uncomfortable changing around you or just other people in general I wouldn't see that as your issue; there are usually washroom cubicles or something they can do their business in.

Since the problem doesn't seem to be your comfort with your nudity, I agree with the person who said to see what others do. However you get changed, it does seem weird to me when people don't at least put on a towel to walk from locker to shower.

If people are generally a bit more prudish, I'd just strip down to bra and undies, put the towel on, then take them off from underneath the towel if that's not too hard.

But as long as you're not staring or doing anything too crazy, I doubt anyone will give you a second thought :. I'm pan, and I think, pretty obviously not straight short hair, hairier legs than most dudes , and I just get butt ass naked.

I'm there to shower and change and that's what I'm doing. I'm not checking anyone else out, and I just assume other people aren't checking me out.

If someone has issues with nudity in a locker room, that's their problem, not mine. If someone doesn't feel comfortable changing in public, that's up to them.

Hell, I'm sure most people wish they had enough confidence to change in public. So do what's comfortable to you, what's it to them?

As a girl who did a lot of team sports growing up, it becomes obvious who never had that experience -- and I'm guessing that might be some small part of what you're experiencing.

Some people are just outside of a locker culture, where the point is to get naked, get clean, and get out.

They add the extra steps because the whole experience is daunting, so any thing you want to do that doesn't impede your comfort would probably go a long way for them but at the same time, as long as you're respecting their space, then I can't imagine any of them having any issues.

Tbh, if any of them are concerned about your sexuality, let them come to terms with the fact that as grown-ups you can occupy the same space without it becoming unsafe or sexualized.

You should never have to move to some other place just because you happen to fancy the lady parts if you can separate what is and isn't appropriate behavior in somewhere like a changing room.

I did some modeling for art classes while going through art school, so I'm quite comfortable being naked in front of others. I'm quite used to others being comfortable with nudity as well.

So when I worked at a Christian summer camp, it took me awhile to catch on that that wasn't so acceptable there. I'd change in the middle of the cabin and after a week I noticed I was the only one doing it.

Apparently this was really awkward for others, but I didn't know until I found someone I trusted and asked her.

In my experience modeling, the only time I was uncomfortable being naked around anyone was when I overheard a conversation between two guys where they were making comments about another model's body, like in a sexual way.

IMO people who hide to change are ashamed or embarrassed themselves. Anytime I see people changing openly, the only think I think is how I wish I had the balls to walk around like that.

I would never judge someone for taking their clothes of Ina change room.. I don't think its cultural. I think it's personal preference.

Growing up some girls would wait to be able to change in private, some girls would cover themselves or seek less populated areas to change, and others would stop butt naked in the middle of the locker room to finish a story with their friend.

Different people have different levels of comfort with semi public nudity. As long as you're not oggling the women or chatting them up while they change, you being a less doesnt make the slightest difference.

Those who are uncomfortable being seen by someone attracted to their gender will change in private and those who don't care will continue to change out in the open.

Where you yourself change will not alter where others change. I'm a bit of a looky Lou. Even though I'm a straight, I have a hard time not looking at others bodies.

So I would just take a corner and face the wall. I'd stand there naked if I wanted to because I don't care if other people look at me.

Whether you care if someone looks at you is the only reason you should change where you change. Do you mind that someone can see you naked?

If not, there's no reason to be more discreet. If they choose to be more discreet because they're uncomfortable is their own choice.

You can't shield your eyes and never see anyone the entire time you're there. Anyone who has that big of a problem wi th a lesbian in the locker room should be the one who has to put the work in to satisfy their bigotry not you.

Don't take on other peoples shit because you don't want to offend them. They're going to be offended regardless.

As the saying goes, let the haters hate. Being gay is not a crime anymore. They're just gonna have to learn to live with that or go out of their way to appease their bigoted narrow minds.

Either way, that's not your concern. I wouldn't care if there was a lesbian in the locker room, but in general when it comes to the locker room idc about much.

The ladies at my gym walk around naked all the time, and I follow suit more or less. I guess see what others do and follow suit. I live in a very Asian area, so culturally I think there is no shame in nudity in the context of cleaning ones self.

I wouldn't feel any more or less uncomfortable in the locker room because there was a lesbian around, and I wouldn't expect a lesbian to take any extra precautions to protect their or my modesty.

All locker room situations are a little awkward, and I think it's an unspoken rule that you just let people do their thing without comment whether that be walking around naked or getting dressed in the shower.

Do what makes you feel comfortable. You're just one of many naked women in the locker room and you have every right to be as exposed or as modest as the other women choose to be.

Do whatever you want. Generally people who areused to time in the locker room athletes, old people haha don't give a flying fuck. People who aren't so used to it tend to be a little shier.

Everyone has different comfort levels. For me, nudity is a non-issue, but others are uncomfortable by it. I have never felt uncomfortable in a changing room with a lesbian.

In fact, straight girls are much more likely to make sexual comments, in my experience. You are doing just fine in terms of etiquette, but if you still feel uncertain it might help to change facing a corner.

As a trans woman I get the same worries when I go to the locker room but honestly: the less you care the less anyone else cares.

If you're awkward you invite awkwardness. I change in the shower or the bathroom stall but if I was cis I wouldn't care. Keep your eyes on yourself and myob, you'll be fine.

Group shower??? That is a big no,gay or straight or whatever. That is the weird part to me. Why are there no private showers? So, I would keep your clothes on until ya get to the shower, or at least wrap a towel around ya Do what makes you comfy with the situation.

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Comments with relevant sources are acceptable. One person was truly open about his bisexuality--and he quit school three months before graduation because he got tired of football players spitting on him in the halls.

Harassment of students simply suspected of being queer was just as bad. I'm sorry to provide only anecdotal evidence, but it's important to remember that high school is not easy for queer kids, and administrative policies that treat them as dangerous are not going to help.

Is she some kind of sex maniac who's likely to jump the nearest girl at the first sight of naked flesh [? But the majority of boys wouldn't jump some girl in a unisex changing room either.

Boys and girls have separate changing rooms because it's likely that they'd feel embarassed to change around one another. Many boys feel embarassed to change around each other , so changing around girls would be even worse.

Similarly, some girls might not like changing around someone who could be sexually attracted to them. As a heterosexual man I can admit that if I were allowed in the women's changing room, I'd probably have a good peek even if I weren't particularly attracted to anyone there.

I doubt lesbians are overwhelmingly prudish in this regard. This girl has rights, but so do those who have to change with her. Clearly one of them didn't like it, so they shopped her.

That's the argument we hear all the time. But it DOES happen You can't claim a certain sexual biology and then turn around and suggest that it can be turned on and off under varying circumstances.

Surely it works the same way for lesbian women. Simple fact is, I would prefer to have a woman taking a peek at me than I would a gay man.

But I'm sure that makes me some kind of homophobe or something. Alas, I have to change with other men Obligatory Onion links.

Public schools have an obligation to look after the safety and security of their students and this administrative action definitely undermines that lesbian student's security.

A lesbian in a women's locker room is completely uncomparable to a man in a women's locker room or vice versa , because a lesbian girl would have had previous experience showering or changing with girls.

Thus, she is not going to get out of joint when seeing a naked girl, because she already knows what a nude female body looks like.

All she has to do is look in a mirror. The same thing applies for a gay man in a men's locker room. The discomfort that some adolescent girls might feel that a lesbian might desire them is nothing compared to the harassment that the lesbian student is going to face while the school board tattoos her with a "scarlet L.

Guys will "moon" each other, flash each other etc. I have no experience in girls' locker rooms, but think about the opening scene of Carrie and you can also see some homoerotic elements, even though the girls are putatively straight.

Did we learn nothing from the Columbine massacre? Harris and Klebold were taunted incessantly as "faggots" and they weren't even gay.

In Banning, California, it looks like the school doesn't merely turn a blind eye to this kind of ostracism of nonconformists, but gives it an administrative seal of approval posted by jonp72 at AM on December 18, Funny, I was thinking about this the other day in relation to the women-only section we have at the gym.

I don't particularly feel the need to use it and wondered why others do. Why don't men have one? I think there's two issues: 1. Men and women are brought up to feel uncomfortable in each other's company and with each other's bodies.

If the genders were mixed at all times from birth, I doubt if the sexual tension thing would be a problem.

One man in a women's changing room would be a laugh. A whole group of them would be embarrassing. Groups are different from individuals. How is one lesbian threatening?

It's more likely that the situation is threatening for her. If there was a group of lesbians that were acting aggressively that would be different.

But that's very, very unlikely to happen at a school. They'd be slaughtered. Probably because the women who run the gym like checking out the men's abs :- Really though, it's segregation, and I bet if a 'Whites Only' area was created, there'd be an uproar.

Because women have been 'oppressed' for hundreds of years, many women feel it is okay to 'get men back'. Luckily I feel the same way as Germaine Greer.

She claims feminism has gone too far, and that woman are not only trying to be equal, they're trying to get things better than men too. This is the best point made for the defence in this thread so far, and one that has forced me to reflect on my opinion.

If a single guy was put into a woman's changing room, he would probably be the embarassed one, since he would be outnumbered. And I'm almost certain that it was a vendetta.

I resisted I have to say that I believe that there should be no segregation at all between sexes in changing rooms.

I also believe that there should be no rules about public nudity as long as a man can avoid being erect and a woman can avoid being openly arroused.

I look at pictures of naked women most of the day and it doesn't do anything because they are just women who happen to have no clothes on rather than being objects for sex.

We seem to have lost this distinction. In the twine42 utopia there's no dress code, no stress about sex and sexuality, and therefore less worry about LGB issues and many fewer sexual attacks.

Yes, I'll go back to my dreamworld. A note on the "women only" area of a gym: my college had women's only P. Due to modesty requirements of their religion, wearing shorts around men would be unseemly; wearing their normal long dresses or pants got in the way of running 3 miles.

This was only for a couple of required P. In middle school and high school, quite a few girls were embarrassed to change around other girls, not because they thought people were ogling them, but because they thought their bodies were deficient in some way.

Those who were embarrassed went into the toilet stalls to change. And then there were the girls who were expert at getting changed without exposing any extra flesh it doesn't take much practice to learn how to change shirts without flashing anybody.

I don't see why these girls can't do the same thing if they're feeling uncormfortable. Or, better yet, attend a class on respect, tolerance, and human sexuality?

Obviously these teenagers are not getting taught that at home. Doesn't sound like the Germaine Greer I know. According to the LA Times article I read this morning it's in the "California" section , the girl was asked about her sexuality by the girl next to her in the locker room, then pulled aside by the gym teacher and told not to talk about it.

The next day, the teacher sent her to the principal's office, with no explanation. It would appear from the article that the harassment was prompted by the actions of the teachers and administrators themselves.

Seems the principal's principle principle of locker room gender separation is to deny ogling. That is, you change your clothes with the people you not they are least sexually attracted to.

Which seems to me to be fairly perverse, certainly more perverse than the ordinary human activity of 'checking out' other human beings.

Perhaps a solution would be some 30 individual changing stalls, each containing one shower head, one toilet, one rack of hooks for clothes-hanging, and one bench.

However, this brings up the question of voluntarily sharing shower-space. Again an entirely healthy activity, but the prevailing cultural meme is against it.

So, the principal's secondary principle is that the students should change in company, to monitor each other's compliance with the proscription of sex.

These principles, together, don't handle the problem of a lesbian student very well at all. One might almost suspect they weren't thought up with lesbian students in mind.

Indeed one might suspect that neither principle makes a lot of sense, and more sensible principals might decide on more sensible principles and hence a new course of action.

Personally, I recommend a unisex changing room. A group of young men doesn't pose a threat to a group of young women unless they're thoroughly de-socialized, and in any case the teachers are easily close enough to be summoned by screams.

Who's soft? The 15 year old girl who was called out of gym class on a technicality, or the perceived homophobia of the rest of the female student population?

So, uh, what happens with bisexuals, then? Where do they get to change? I wonder if the parents in these communities are prepared for the tax hike they will surely experience in order to facilitate the staggering amounts of money needed for all these different changing rooms.

Re: women's only gyms. They tend to be different from unisex gyms, focusing on equipment more commonly used by women and classes over things like weights.

I don't have to wait in line for one of the two stationary bikes, there are a dozen of them, small differences like that.

Personally, I hate unisex gyms. It seems like a small percentage of the guys assume that anyone there is there to meet people and flirt, not to workout.

That tiny percentage is more than enough to ruin an entire gym for me. When I go I'm there to work out and leave. I don't want anyone flirting with me, I don't want anyone explaining to the "little lady" how a complex piece of equipment like, say, a stairmachine, works.

If I take a step class I don't want a group of men to be lined up in the back of the room watching everyone's ass.

I go to an all-women's gym and these problems are instantly gone. It's a huge gym so there's no problem getting a bike or a running machine.

Classes are also in separate studios so there's no ogling - not that there would be anyway, this being England. So I don't really understand the women-only area.

I suppose if you're very, very body conscious it makes sense. If there were any such thing as a bisexual, then you might have a point wells.

Bisexuality is a behavior, not a sexuality. It is a trendy sexual game played by people who haven't a clue. In that case, you might be more in tune with 'burn your bra' Greer of the 60's.

I think Greer has certainly come into her element lately, with her theories on reverse sexism and how feminism is going too far.

She has certainly become a pillar of sense and I'm one of her biggest fans for it too. Wackybrit, let me know when women make the same pay as men do for the same work, and then we can talk about feminism going too far.

I guess they need some educatin' from you then: Everyone Hate to break it to you, but that scene from Carrie was a male director's fantasy. Females of any age do not strut around naked in change rooms and run their hands caressingly over themselves in open showers.

They hide in corners and change as quickly and modestly as possible. I can think of no practical solution for this situation that will satisfy everyone.

Unless we're prepared to put separate changing stalls in schools and this would take a generation to fully implement , the best we can do is keep the changerooms divided by gender as formerly and expect everyone to behave considerately regardless of their sexual orientation.

After all, this is really what we've been doing all along and it's worked pretty well. For God's sake, aeschenkarnos, when in high school I was subjected to enough boorish behaviour by as yet insufficiently socialized teenaged boys while fully clothed.

I can't imagine how humiliated I would have gotten if I'd been forced to change in front of them too. You can't seriously think this is a good idea.

Why bother? Witty's the one who's confused. Men like to stare at women's asses, if they're nice and tight. What do you think you have cleavage for?

It's to make them titties look more like a nice ass! All so we men will stare at them! You should be proud On a less aggressive note, I don't understand why women get so pissed off at men doing instinctual things.

When someone is checking me out, I strut, dammit! I don't understand why women get so pissed off at men doing instinctual things I'll field this one ladies Because "instinctual" things like ogling can often be followed by other possibly instinctual things like catcalling, unwnated attention, getting followed to your car, and being called a bitch because you don't want to give some slack-jawed hardon with legs your phone number.

I'm not saying I can't take a compliment, even from someone I might not want to date, but it's a tough line to draw.

Just because it's instinct doesn't make it right. Learning to control your instincts is an important part of living in a society, and so is acknowledging that your idea of a good time isn't everyone else's.

If it happened constantly, and usually when you didn't feel like it, it would get real tired, real quick. I'm disappointed in almost all of the opinions here.

This is the best point made for the defense in this thread so far, and one that has forced me to reflect on my opinion.

If a single guy was put into a woman's changing room, he would probably be the embarrassed one, since he would be outnumbered. Well, I'm glad after telling you verbatim to think of it from someone else's perspective you are capable of doing so, I suppose.

How much trauma is done to the heterosexual changing with 35 other heterosexuals in the locker room with one gay guy?

Not much. Will he look at you? Possibly, but you know what, deal with it. It doesn't even compare to the amount of harm caused by segregating this single homosexual, and differentiating him for more abuse than he is already taking.

This will only make it worse. To think that a gay person going into a men's locker room is even remotely like a straight guy looking at female porn is asinine.

Maybe with Summer's remarks you actually thought about it. Think: Looking at porn that will beat you up if it suspects you're looking at it.

To segregate this poor girl causes her an incredible amount of pain and humiliation, to keep her in the same locker room causes maybe a few girls some comfort.

It's hard for me to believe this is even being debated. As I stare at a reminder of a hateful, ignorant comment in the Trackback post Wackybrit, your theories about why we have separate changing rooms are only that: theories.

This might be obvious, but in this sort of quasi-legal context if there really was a specified reasoning behind the system then that would be used in determining how to generalize the old rules to "new" situations.

I was really saddened to see that this happened in my home state. This is just bullshit. Shepd, I think you're on crack. You wrote "What a waste just to protect one young girl from dealing with what her future life will be like.

In the rest of the fucking world men and women use changing rooms and bathrooms without any regard whatsoever to sexual orientation.

Have you ever been to an airport? Did you see the "lesbian" bathrooms? OK, bathrooms are kind of different, but maybe some airports have gyms.

If your point made any sense then it would have to be that the other girls should get used to the real world where they have to deal with different kinds of people.

I'd vote for any law or amendment that would protect the equal rights of gays, and anyone that won't can and will go to hell. Of course, we can't even get an ERA, so this will take a long time.

I posted this last night and came back this afternoon to see all these mostly shocking, disturbing comments. What's wrong with you people!?

To me and my lesbian roommate who e-mailed it to me this case represents an egregious violation of civil rights. She, like all other minorities, should be entitled to the same civil liberties that you and I enjoy And I'm gay, and I pee at urinals next to real live straight men all the time andwouldja believe it?

Sorry for the graphic nature of that, but I'm trying to point out how absurd it is to assume that gaysany more than straight peoplecan't control their hormones in non-sexual contexts.

Should there be no more gay doctors, because they get titillated giving hernia tests? No more gay lifeguards, ambulance drivers, film directors, actors ya right!

And should we exclude blacks from all department stores because they--if we subscribe to the awful stereotype--tend to shoplift more?

Or Jews from banks because they love money? And unless you subscribe to the awful, inaccurate stereotype that gays are uncontrollably sex-minded, then you CANNOT exclude and ostricize and humiliate a young girl from a locker room for being a lesbian.

What the hell more do you want from us straights? Come to think of it, I've yet to have a queer hit on me.

I think I'm a handsome, slender, and oh-so-sexy hunk o' meat. The ladies seem to agree: I've had several of them after my ass. What the hell's wrong with you gays?

I know I look at every woman like a potential screw: what'sa matter that you're not looking at me the same way?! My confidence in being one sexy mofo is being eroded.

I'm deeply hurt! Orange Swan: For God's sake, aeschenkarnos, when in high school I was subjected to enough boorish behaviour by as yet insufficiently socialized teenaged boys while fully clothed.

Well, I'm not prepared to push it to the point of being nutty about it, but I do sort-of think it's an idea with some good consequences, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, the 'civilizing influence' of mixed-gender groups. Boys are nicer when girls are around. Sure, it's basically to impress the girls, but it's still true.

Boys alone can treat each other fairly badly. Secondly, even if it is more stressful, I'm inclined to think the kids of both genders would be more likely to quietly and quickly get changed, facing the wall.

My point isn't really that mixed-gender changing rooms are a brilliant idea. I'm saying that single-gender changing rooms aren't a brilliant idea either, and mixed-gender changing rooms might actually be better.

If British-descended cultures weren't afraid of nudity and sexualize it so much of course other cultures, like those of the Middle East, are far worse in this regard, but let's confine our ambit of discussion for now , this wouldn't be an issue, and on that point, I'm curious about how Japanese, Danish and French high schools handle the issue of changing rooms.

Anyone know? Witty: Rubbish, it's the non -bisexuals who haven't a clue. A person may act in a way that conforms to their chosen sexual identity, but unless they are very unusual, they will in the course of their life be attracted to many people.

Some of those people, usually a small proportion, will be of the same sex as the person, and for cultural reasons they will usually not act on these attractions.

Our culture is, at the moment, making this an easier choice, and the ill-informed opinion of people like yourself is to blame.

Now some positive assertions: I believe people have the right to have sex with whoever also wants to have sex with them, and it's nobody else's business.

I also believe we have the right to put constraints, like an exclusive relationship including a marriage around our own sexual behavior. The issue of pregnancy raises responsibilities when exercising one's sexual rights.

So do STDs. So do the emotional needs and attachments of yourself and your partner s. Balancing rights and responsibilities, what you want to do and what the consequences are, is part of maturity.

And this is why I have an ambivalent view of the 'gay community' and 'gayness' and 'lesbian-ness'. I don't dispute a person's right to define themselves however they want, within reason.

I don't dispute the political need to have a group with an interest in defending same-gender sex rights. What I do dispute is the "but you're gay, you can't have sex with a girl!

The expectation that a gay man or lesbian will be exclusively attracted to their own sex, to the point that an opposite-sex attraction will cause them qualms of 'heterophobic' identity crisis.

The presumption--for political reasons--that any man who ever has sex with another man is really gay, and his attractions to women are just fooling himself, irks me even more.

Both of these result from a vacuum of politics, for purposes of drumming up supporters. I reject the "are you gay or straight, please tick ONE" view of sexuality, because it is contrary to general fact, and psychologically unhealthy for individuals.

I doubt it. This is the easy logical argument against "bums to the wall" homophobia. Even of those women you do find attractive, you normally hit on them only if you're reasonably confident of a positive response.

Granted, this confidence can arise internally from Being A Complete Jerk rather than any good source. Why assume homosexual men behave more boorishly?

Not that I accuse you of making that assumption, 5FF, I'm only presenting the argument against it. Well expressed, aeschenkarnos.

Thank you. I'd be interested to hear how people propose dealing with transgendered students. A unisex changing room would make it a non-issue, but that's not the current reality of most schools and public places.

Should these kids be required to share a locker room with those of their biological sex or with those of the sex they live as? Or should they get to pick?

I don't think any of these are very good solutions though picking seems the least-bad. Anybody have any better ideas? A lot of you aren't understanding what I'm saying.

This is a free country. Just as you are free to express yourself on your sexuality, others are free to comment on that. The fact you hate their freedom to do this is irrelevant.

It can and will happen. The only time anyone has any business if ever telling you that you should not be commenting on someone is if it is something that is obvious.

This isn't something that others know immediately about you when they see you. If you decide to flaunt it, you must deal with the consequences of doing so.

For example, being an intelligent atheist, I do not go about and ensure everyone knows I am atheist.

I don't want to deal with the changed attitudes towards me from others. I have better things to do. If others inadvertently find out, etiquette dictates for them to ignore it.

Being that this girl has decided to let the world know about her sexuality makes it an issue others have the freedom to comment on. If she didn't like that, it was her business to have not talked about it in the first place.

Instead she wants the world to know about it, so she will have to deal with the way the world perceives at her. How about this example: If you were to walk into a washroom and take a piss in the stall beside me and throughout your break you tell me of your gaity, I promise you, you WILL get a different attitude from me than anyone else pissing beside me.

And that's life. If you used the can and upon exiting told me you screw 10 ladies every night I will give you a dirty look and probably won't even use your stall.

That's life, and if you can't deal with it, you are not free to force me to be quiet about it. So you had better change your attitude instead if you don't like mine.

And, again, that's why I don't tell everyone on earth private things like that. Because I want people to treat me like a normal everyday person, not like some sort of God-hating maniac.

It's all about perception. If this girl had kept her mouth shut why the hell does she need to tell people that she's gay at 14?

Because she used her freedom to choose to tell others about her sexuality, others have now used their freedom to judge her yes, you have the freedom to judge others -- you just don't have the freedom to do much about your judgement.

The other girls have told the principal they aren't comfortable with her being there. He is simply reacting to that. If he doesn't, then I assume the other girls will use their freedom to shun the gay girl.

Wether that is right or not is irrelevant. They just will. In the end, this girl is learning an important life lesson, which is that you cannot change the attitudes of others towards you without encountering many hardships along the way.

That what people perceive is what you tell them. And she'll soon learn another lesson: She might legislate herself the freedom to change in that room, but she can't force the movement of others into that room with her.

She is effectively choosing to isolate herself from society, and this is infact the issue we are dealing with. On the contrary, I think most of us understood it quite well.

But thank you for furthering clarifying your point, in case someone missed the fact that you are advocating lying about a central part of one's life simply to avoid the ire of ignorant bigots.

You, sir, are an ass. Excuse me, that last was completely unnecessary. I'm just getting a wee bit frustrated with your self-centered and amoral approach to the issue.

According to aeschenkarnos , we should all be screwing each other regardless of gender or sexuality. Apparently, there is just one overall sexuality er sumthin'.

I'm not buying it. Gimme a break. I won't deny that I can recognize an attractive man when I see one.

If the guy is good looking, then he's good looking. But that doesn't imply a sexual attraction. And it certainly doesn't imply that I don't act on this phantom attraction simply because societal norms tell me not to.

I don't have sex with men because I'm wired not to I was put together correctly. Do oblige me, ye Mefi gods.

Perhaps you can link to these statements of Greer's that feminism is going too far? I don't recall them and I've read nearly everything she's published.

Ahh yes, the crime of heterosexuality. Lemme go find a cute guy to rub up against so I can be more likable Witty: According to aeschenkarnos, we should all be screwing each other regardless of gender or sexuality.

That's because you don't get it; not because you can't, but because you prefer to hold another opinion. Which is your right, although that opinion is factually refuted by the existence of even one bisexual person in the entirety of human history.

No, we shouldn't be screwing each other regardless. My point is that we should be allowed to screw each other, assuming we are both consenting and capable, if we decide , given our mutual attraction and willingness, that we would like to.

Without people like you poking your noses in, demanding to know why and what for and how long and so forth, none of which you need to know, or making suggestions about whether we 'ought to' or not, which is none of your business.

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